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Talk:Feral Flare/@comment-5931083-20140508085100/@comment-6281696-20140510112129
Right, this isn't really the place for it as it'l be a massive post but I could give some examples of items from which true tanks or supports would benefit greatly but which would be OP as hell on bruisers. In terms of specialised damage items, those are mostly just numbers, e.g. the utility of hydra's waveclear is fine on tanks/bruisers/carries, but the 75 AD kind of isn't on all of them. So you get several variations of such items for each class. Similarly obviously squishies still need acces to some defensive items whereas tanks need acces to something offensive, so not like tanks can't have any AD on any item etc. Anyways, some examples: Bullwark, and basicly any aura item that comes with halfdecent stats as soon as they are usefull without the reliance on the aura everyone starts buying them. A thornmail that scales of defensive stats (so returns 0.15% + 0.005/armor damage or something) A thornmail for spells. A version of Atma's with a ratio that's not completly pointless, possibly also based on other defensive stats, not just health, Obviously minus the crit. A version of Atma's for AP. Defensive items that give attackspeed, currently the only one is really wit's end. Tanks are usually reliant on their AA's for damage, weak as they are, as their spells are mostly utility, but they then get horrendous attackspeeds which just means they got nothing at all. Scaling versions of sunfire's damage. Obviously not to the point were it is 500dps single target, but sunfire is one of the best examples of a offensive tank item, low, consistent damage. But at the ~40/s which with damage reduction is like ~30 even on squishies, it doesn't really do much, especially as most fights end in 4-5seconds. Basicly the issue is that currently their acces to damage is so limited that even if they can survive long they just aren't a threat as they just don't do any damage, I've had situations were a carry at 10% health absolutly decimated a tank at 100% simply because his lifesteal basicly negated anything the tank could do, which is terribly stupid. Higher defensive items, currently bruisers with a full build are like 20 armor and a 100 health behind compared to proper tanks but with a massive advantage damage-wise, plus often they have lifesteal which makes their effective health basicly the same. Also, even with a full tank build you won't survive longer than 5-6 seconds against most heavy damage champions, which personally I just think is a bit quick... A proper counter to penetration-items, so basicly an item that increases your armor by x%. Currently there is nothing you can really do at all against them which combined with the large percentages feels kind of lame as a tank. Basicly what happens currently is I build armor -> opponent builds penetration -> my armor-item is now pointless and getting back to the same value would cost another 2k+.. They could also change the way penetration works, or put it on items that don't also give large amounts of AD/AP (for example last whisperer now only gives penetration, no AD, which would make it less of an obvious pick as you now still need the AD to back it up from somewhere.) A counter against crit, e.g. armor reduces the chance to be crittically hit by 0.1%, the reason for this being that a full-crit trynda still kills you in 4-5 seconds. I tried surviving trynda once for fun using thresh, I needed 900+ armor before I could simply survive his ultimate without having to rely on kiting/zhonya's/summoners, Seems a bit much really... A counter to health-based attacks, similarly to armor penetration there just isn't anything available in LoL to really counter it, which makes defensive items, which often come with health, feel like more of a liability than an improvement in your defenses. Gold items with actually decent stats, as soon as they come with decent stats everyone will buy them, currently they are just kind of underwhelming and really only bought cuz you do need the gold and they at the very least aren't completly useless. (Ruby) sighstone with decent stats, kind of the same as with the gold items, especially the sightstone is just awefull stat-wise for its immeadiate cost. This is made worse by the fact that it is used by supports who already don't have any items so you just end up with a measly 150 extra hp, but no armor or mr or anything, so it's gone in 1 AA. The ruby one is better as at least at this stage its become somewhat gold effecient in between the wards placed & the higher increase in health/gold spend, but it's still quite weak and still occupies a slot, which is why I'd say it needs better stats. Though I would also suggest a third upgrade to for a final boost in stats. E.g. Sightstone gets 250 hp (nearly cost effecient, which as a support I basicly only want stuff that is immeadiatly cost effecient) Ruby gets Idunno, 400 + 10 armor + 10 mr then another upgrade gets 500hp, 35 armor, 35mr total cost at 2500 or something. The slot is no longer wasted and the early versions don't feel as much as a setback. So.. this is long enough a post for now I think. Also, I'd like to stress that all of the tank-items with offensive bonuses are there to make their offense matter, not to make them capable of horribly murdering everything. Basicly as they are now they frequently can barely outdamage the lifesteal certain characters have, and in the case of bruisers their attacks are barely noticable, which is just too little. However they obviously should never be able to actually compete with more damage focused classes in terms of raw DPS, just have sufficient to be a threat, especially combined with the fact that they can take a beating before going down themselfs. O, and don't immeadiatly go "x is OP", it's mostly the mechanics/builds that I find lacking on proper tanks actual values I haven't put much thought in, similarly squishies would need to get some new items but I've simply not put that much thought into them as I have into tanks/supports.